Jill Carter - December 2007

Name: Jill Carter

Age: Yes

Orientation: Dominant – Bisexual

Marital status: Soulmate of 34 years – Viola Johnson

Do you currently have a sub or play partner:  I have a girl (Chewtoy) and boi Robi

Occupation: Hard working Mudaf--ka

Ms. Carter, you have won so many contest titles and awards in the BDSM/leather community over the years that we could base this entire interview just on listing your many impressive accomplishments. While we are sure every award holds some importance to you, which are the titles/awards that meant the MOST to you and why?

Winning International Ms Leather (IMsL) in 1996 was my most memorable experience for a number of reasons. I was the first African American woman to win this title and it enabled me to spend my title year gathering women’s leather history, and directing community towards the Leather Archives and Museum (LA&M). What started out as just gathering history, evolved into a special campaign. At each event that hosted me, I asked for a special donation to be made that would go directly to the LA&M. During my title year I was not only able to travel the country gathering our history, I raised over $17,000 in funds that enabled the LA&M, (located in Chicago and serving the world), to be financially in the black for the first time since its inception.

The number of years experience one has in the BDSM/leather lifestyle is often exaggerated by members of our community. In your opinion, how should one define precisely how many years experience they have? Does it begin when they have their first scene, attend their first lifestyle event, or is it when they become self-aware of their Dominant or submissive persona?
This is a not an easy question to answer. Back in the day, your time in the lifestyle began when you consciously turned fantasy into reality. Sometimes it was by venturing into one of the s/m clubs like Hellfire or Chateau 19. It might be by taking the bold step of attending a public meeting like T.E.S. of venturing into a leather bar or shop on the old dock strip and seeking out a mentor to teach you or a partner to play with. Many of us took the first steps into the fantasy world with books like the Story of O, or magazines like Bizarre or Justice Weekly. But opening our imagination to kinky possibilities, and having real experience are two very different things. I suppose, in today’s language that would be like an “on line only” Master or Mistress trying to bring that experience into their first real scene. It may work on the computer screen, but it may not translate well, or at all, in the real world.

How many years experience do you have in the BDSM/leather lifestyle and how did you become involved in the community?

My experience with the kinky lifestyle goes back to the summer of 1973 when I first met Ms. Johnson and tied her up. We stumbled upon others like us in 1974 through an ad for T.E.S. (The Eulenspiegel Society) that had been placed in the Village Voice. We were welcomed into the group by Pat Bond and Jack Jackson. From there it was like going through a maze—you opened one door and it lead you to many more doors. Within that first year we found ourselves interacting with all sectors of the kink community, heterosexual, gay leather men, the fetish community, leather women, and a very small trans and bisexual leather community. We were invited into, Club DeSade, Club 52, the early fetish parties of Fred Lincoln and the BDSM / fetish nights at Plato’s Retreat. From there we helped with the early years of groups like LSM and a seven or eight years later, the National Leather Organization. We even participated in a few of the early Christopher Street Parades and marches on Washington.

Vi and I have been privileged to watch, and be a small part of, much of the early history of the kink culture in the New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania area.

For the benefit of those of us who never experienced it and have totally romanticized or been totally traumatized by the idea of it, please tell us what the Old Guard was really like.
By its strictest definition, “Old Guard” is a term that is used to distinguish the leather men (usually gay) who came out of the service after WWII and gravitated to, or founded, the motorcycle clubs and “rough” bars that catered to them. True “Old Guard” are the men of that leather generation, and the generations they taught. The term gets thrown around a lot. Today, it is mostly used referring to those of us who were involved in S/M prior to the eighties. It is a term loosely used to identify us, much like the term baby-boomer, or gen x’er is used. We were the generation who sat together at the dinner table and may even have lived in multi-generational families or neighborhoods. Manners were just a normal part of our lives. They were learned at home and reinforced by the neighbors and in the schools.

When we came of age, we rebelled by becoming hippies, flower children and radical thinking youths who had an anti-establishment bend. It was during this free thinking time that many of us discovered the forbidden erotica of Europe like The Image, The Story of O, A Man and a Maid or The Pearl. That opened our fantasies and encouraged us to unleash our kinky tendencies. So we applied our outside norms to our inside underground world. Manners, which were applied automatically in society became known as unspoken rules of good conduct. The more rigid forms of S/M protocol that were evolved from the WWII military traditions became incorporated into this new, more pansexual, scene. In this new world you would showcase your slave(s) or submissive(s) and demonstrate your own mastery through public play. The demonstration of your property’s trust and loyalty during the various levels of power exchange, the mental connection between you and your property and the mastery of technique and connection to each other were a kind of community right of passage.

Do well, and eventually you would hear your mentor (s) and the elders say “nice job”. Another aspect of the Old Guard was that honor meant being honest and having integrity. Protection and policing our own was the duty and responsibility of all that entered into our circle Screw up and you might not play in public again for a long time. Occasionally someone messed up so badly or did something that put another at risk. They would be were called out publicly and if they continued, ostracized from the group.

One of the seminars you teach is based on Dungeon and Leather Protocol. The internet has eroded much of the stricter rules of protocol many organizations followed in the past, and for that reason, many of the senior members of our community (who we stand to learn the most from) shun the internet. How can we get our elders more involved online without totally disgusting them with the whole "online bdsm" thing?
I really cannot answer this question, as I do not use the Internet for online BDSM. The Internet has allowed everyone who has an asshole to have an opinion and since I learned to do my business in private, I find it hard to go public with my verbal diarrhea. If there is going to be any kind of on line multigenerational thing at all, I believe there will have to be some younger kinky folk acting as translators and mediums between the generations. Find a few talented interviewers who can get my generation to tell them their stories. See if you can get a few of us old folks to demonstrate our skills in front of a camera. That might get the intergenerational teaching started.

Regarding psychological domination, when is the only time a sub's will should be broken?

My answer today is very different from yesterday. That is —almost never. You really have to know within yourself that you truly are a Top, Master, Mistress, Dominant; that you are committed to that slave who is freely giving him/her self over to you;, that you will be there for them no matter what. If you are going to destroy their being and transform them into what you want them to be, then you had better be prepared to keep them and care for them until death do us part. That is a tremendous responsibility that is not to be taken lightly. It is the ultimate commitment, short of death and in part, the breaking of the will is a form of death. The seven stages of psychological submission are similar to the stages of grieving. The slave is surrendering the self in exchange for resurrection as the new being the owner wants.

What are your thoughts regarding SSC and RACK? Vital concepts for the community?... or overused acronyms?
I have to wrap my thoughts around this question. When I came out we were a small group of freaks as compared to the size of the Leather community today. We had to be safe, (not break or destroy our toys), stay in touch with reality, sane and responsible to ask versus take without a consensual understanding. We were aware of the risks and inherent dangers in what we were doing and we were willing to accept responsibility for the life we led and the games we played. Due to the rise in sexually transmitted diseases, AIDS, people on Prozac, a generation of molested and abused newbies and dangerous predators lurking on the Internet, knowing the risks of the game and those with whom you are playing with is essential. So I guess that Risk Aware Consensual Kink is where I’m at.

You have published a book on Leather Title Contests, "So You Wanna Be a Title Holder," and will soon have another book published, "Sash, Dash or Ask." In your opinion, why are title contests so important to the Leather Community, and why aren't title contests as popular within the general BDSM community, and more specifically the Black BDSM community?
Titles did not come into existence for the Leather community until the late 70’s in the gay leather men’s circle. In 1987 the first title for leather women took off with Judy Tallwing becoming the first International Ms Leather. The leather community looked to the title holder as a spokesperson and representative: the best of the best so to speak. The winner became the visable face that was presented to the larger world as well as to the community that they represented. The heterosexual community has not seen a need put forth *one* visible representative. The other major importance that titles had in the gay leather community was that it was our pivotal point of our social gatherings. Back when there were so few contests, title weekends were key aspect of our community gatherings and affordable. Leather titles today, have lost some of its importance in the community for a variety of reasons, one of the major one being that just about anyone today can get or win a title.

Everything reaches it peak, then begins its descent and I believe titles today are in this transition. There was a time when a titleholder had to have been in and known around the community before running for and winning a title. Mem like Guy Baldwin International Mr Leather (IML 1983) and Mr. International National Leather Association (MrNLA 1983) made these titles mean something by using the visibility to make a noticeable difference. He set a new standard that titleholders that followed wanted to match or exceed. Then about the mid-90’s titles began to lose some of its importance. Today there are many ways for people of color to gather. Onyx hit the scene in 1996-97 and became the rallying point for gay leather people of color (GLPOC). Then Black Beat emerged in 2003, celebrating its fifth year of existence as a gather for the larger POC Community. Perhaps in the future, there may just be a Ms And Mr. Black Beat.

You've been quoted as saying that you created the Ms. World Leather contest with a more mature leatherwoman in mind. What was your reasoning behind that?
The women’s community needed to step up its game. We were evolving into a more experienced leather community with no outlet for showcasing depth and understanding of the issues that plagued us all. World was developed to provide an outlet for the passions of this more experienced and mature woman. The event was designed to give voice to her concerns. World invites all women, regardless of their biological beginnings or sexual orientation, to present her platform to her community and have her voice heard.

Is it true that you have been somewhat disappointed by the caliber of some contestants in past leather contests?
In general, how does one know if they have the right stuff to compete? Yes, I have been disappointed by some of the contestants, but not any of the ones competed for World—hah hah! If you want to know if you have the right stuff, read my book!

Black leaders have called for the a nationwide ban on the N-word by actors, musicians and other entertainment artists. Do you feel we should try to impose a similar ban on the N-word within the BDSM/leather community?

Again, you are asking the wrong person. I was raised not to use this word and it is only when folks are acting ignorant that I might utter the “N” at all. I personally find it distasteful and degrading. (But I also understand that not everyone feels the way I do. Some people incorporate it into their scene as a way of reclaiming it. Much like gays have reclaimed the word faggot.) It was a word that made my brothers and sisters look at each other in shock when Mohammed Ali won his heavy weight title and to listen to the hate emitting through our television tube and piercing our young ears as white audience hurled the N- word at the champ. When you have had to crack as many heads as I have for calling me the N-word, hell yeah get rid of it!

If the president of the United States invited you to the White House in an effort to learn more about alternative lifestyles what would you wear and what would you talk about?
I would wear a black leather three-piece suit, a tailored black conservative shirt, black stockings, black leather heels, black leather gloves, a sharp brim, and carry a black leather briefcase. There would be no talking, only negotiating for when, and how often, I would be back!